Rocky Horror Picture Show Daybills - original or reissue?

John

There are two styles of Rocky Horror daybill - one full colour Lips style, the other Black and White both "M" rated. I notice that Bruce has sold quite a few of both styles over the years.

http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/searchfield/title/search/rocky%20horror%20picture%20show/type/Aust%20daybill/archive.html

The majority of the black and white daybills are described as original but one is described as R80. The full colour daybill is obviously the better looking poster of the two but I can see no evidence of one being released before the other and nothing to suggest that the one Bruce sold in 2005 was R80s while the other black and white daybills are all original. Also notice that the measurements on some of the black and white daybills are different.

Does anyone have anything definitive/factual on whether the black and white daybills were released at the same time as the full colour daybills or not? Bear in mind that just because one poster is more appealing than another, that doesn't necessarily prove one was released earlier.

HONDO

This is my opinion only as I really don't know the answer. The film became a cult classic and had screenings for many years after its original release in Australia in 1975 and I think the black and white  daybills were printed probably in the 1980s as supplies of the original colour daybill ran low. I cannot see that there was an official re-release just screenings dragging on from the original release. The size of the colour daybills printed by MAPS appear to be either all around the 13 x 30 size that was common for that period or slightly wider in come cases. The size in length of Australian daybill became a little shorter in the 1980s and seeing the black and white daybills are around 28'' this is the main reason I am thinking they were printed then. My only concern is one of Bruce's black and white daybills is 14 x 30 which is larger in length in line with the earlier daybill size and also wider in width than even the original colour version. Could this have been a sizing error when being printed ?

John

I wonder if it is possible that the measurements of some of the black and white daybills that Bruce auctioned are not accurate. Also note that there are no printers details on the black and white poster.

The fact is that there is no evidence to prove that they are not original and no evidence at all to prove that they could be 1980s release or any other re release. Unfortunately, it looks like one of those mysteries that cannot be solved.

HONDO

John said:

I wonder if it is possible that the measurements of some of the black and white daybills that Bruce auctioned are not accurate. Also note that there are no printers details on the black and white poster.

It did cross my mind but didn't want to mention it as Bruce reads these threads. I didn't mention the lack of a printer's name on purpose but seeing you raised it I think the lack of a printer would point in the direction of it being a later printing.

John

This is no criticism of Bruce. Just trying to see if there is any proof that points to one or the other being first release. It is possible that the measurements are accurate and that there was more than one style of the black and white daybill printed.

Probably stirring things up a bit but can we be absolutely certain that the "lips" style full colour daybill is first release? Bear in mind that there is a US "lips" style which is an 80sr

http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/searchfield/title/search/rocky%20horror%20picture%20show/style/style%20A/style/R80s/archive.html

HONDO

The Danish, German, Argentinian and Japanese posters Bruce has in his Auction history section that are listed as first releases all have a form of the lips design showing on the posters. It would appear to me the lips style was used outside of the USA for the initial release.

What we need here is an Australian presskit for The Rocky Horror Picture Show. Anyone have one ?

John

Yes, a presskit would be good! Its likely that the lips style daybill is the first release but no more proof about that than the black and white style.

HONDO

Love to see any version of an Australian one sheet or even a three sheet if one exists of The Rocky Horror Picture Show.

HONDO

From Wikipedia -

Quoted from a 2013 source  - ''The film is considered to be the longest -running release in film history. It has never been pulled by 20th Century Fox from its original 1975 release, and it continues to play in cinemas.

Pancho

FWIW the design used on the B & W daybill is the same used on the style B US one sheet from the original release.

HONDO

If the black & white daybill was printed in the 1980s as I believe it was, it may have been they went with the original style b artwork to be different. 

John

HONDO said:

If the black & white daybill was printed in the 1980s as I believe it was, it may have been they went with the original style b artwork to be different. 

.... but there is no evidence to prove that it is 1980s is there? As Mark points out, the BW is the same as the original US style B so it is entirely possible that it could be the original release.

HONDO

John said:

HONDO said:

If the black & white daybill was printed in the 1980s as I believe it was, it may have been they went with the original style b artwork to be different. 

.... but there is no evidence to prove that it is 1980s is there? As Mark points out, the BW is the same as the original US style B so it is entirely possible that it could be the original release.

All the above is possibly true but until an Australian presskit turns up we will never know. I still believe because of the size of the black and white posters they are 1980s second printings. Please someone turn up a presskit ?

Pancho

Does this help?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ROCKY-HORROR-PICTURE-SHOW-rare-Aussie-PRESS-SHEET-cult-70s-cult-movie-musical-/181848406208 

HONDO

Pancho said:

Does this help?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ROCKY-HORROR-PICTURE-SHOW-rare-Aussie-PRESS-SHEET-cult-70s-cult-movie-musical-/181848406208 

It possibly would have but it states '' This listing has been removed ...''.

Pancho

Hmm...it comes up for me. I just googled 'rocky horror press sheet'.

HONDO

It works now I have googled it direct.

HONDO

Thanks Sven for spotting that. Helpful so form your own opinion but not in my mind 100% proof for a definitive answer regarding the two daybill design printings.

John

Well, I think these two images help support the theory that the Black and White daybill is original release. The Lips version is printed by MAPS and the bw by Robert Burton. That would tend to support the argument that a Style A and B were printed for the original release

HONDO

I won't concede but is certainly is looking like both styles are from the first release but the black and white smaller sizing not used in 1975 is still a concern to me.

John

HONDO said:

I won't concede but is certainly is looking like both styles are from the first release but the black and white smaller sizing not used in 1975 is still a concern to me.

There seems to be some doubt about the actual measurements of the black and white daybills.

John

The bw one that I have measures 13 and a half inches by 27 and three quarter inches

HONDO

John said:

The bw one that I have measures 13 and a half inches by 27 and three quarter inches

Of the eight Bruce has images of he has one only of the size you mention along with five measuring  13 and a half inches by 28 inches and one measuring 13 and three quarter inches by 28 inches. Overall there is only a mere quarter of an inch difference which is too close to worry about. The concern though is the one Bruce has measuring 14 x 30 inches. Is this measurement a mistake, are all the b & w posters first release or are they all 1980s second printings or even a combination of both ?

Bruce has a daybill image of the full colour version written on with texta along the bottom of the poster the words ''With Phantom Of The Paradise,,,'' As the release dates of these two films was only around a year apart I believe the calling of the full colour version to be from the original Australian release is also now supported by this information. 

David

The poster merely may have been not cut, taken off the press before it hit the guillotine.

HONDO

David said:

The poster merely may have been not cut, taken off the press before it hit the guillotine.

If this was the case and all the b & w style daybills were the smaller, or should have been that size, then surely this supports the possibility of a 1980s printing. I am not saying the B & W style was not printed for the first release along with the colour versions but another thing is if this was the case why wasn't  the same printer used to complete the two designs ? I believe there is not enough proof to definitely make the call the black and white versions were printed at the same time as the original colour versions.

John

HONDO said:

David said:

The poster merely may have been not cut, taken off the press before it hit the guillotine.

If this was the case and all the b & w style daybills were the smaller, or should have been that size, then surely this supports the possibility of a 1980s printing. I am not saying the B & W style was not printed for the first release along with the colour versions but another thing is if this was the case why wasn't  the same printer used to complete the two designs ? I believe there is not enough proof to definitely make the call the black and white versions were printed at the same time as the original colour versions.

There is not enough evidence to show that it is 1980s either. The reason I started this thread was because I wondered whether anyone had any definitive evidence on whether the bw was original or a re release. So far, there has been no proof either way.

HONDO

It is also a possibility the printing of the b & w version by an unknown printer was done around the same time as the colour version and the majority of the daybills were cut at the wrong length and on seeing this some additional posters  were then printed at the then normal size.

John

It would be quite understandable if the measurements of some of the daybills in Bruce's previous auctions were approximate. It is very time consuming to exactly measure every item.

Everything here adds up to the fact that no one really knows when the bw daybills were released.

HONDO

John said:

Everything here adds up to the fact that no one really knows when the bw daybills were released.

Agree 100% we don't know when the release of the b & w daybill version happened. I think we can say definitely that there wasn't a re-release of The Rocky Horror Picture Show and the b & w posters were released at the beginning or sometime during the extended run of the film.

David

HONDO said:

David said:

The poster merely may have been not cut, taken off the press before it hit the guillotine.

If this was the case and all the b & w style daybills were the smaller, or should have been that size, then surely this supports the possibility of a 1980s printing. I am not saying the B & W style was not printed for the first release along with the colour versions but another thing is if this was the case why wasn't  the same printer used to complete the two designs ? I believe there is not enough proof to definitely make the call the black and white versions were printed at the same time as the original colour versions.

It's not what I meant - you only referred to ONE poster that was an unusual length (compared to the other ones of the same design). It is not unheard of for the odd poster to be pulled off the line and not trimmed.

David

HONDO said:

I think we can say definitely that there wasn't a re-release of The Rocky Horror Picture Show 

We can?

I have recollections seeing it in 1977(ish)